The Betrayal of Former Incels

I am Carkudo, former moderator of /r/incels on Reddit and former wizard, having reached 30 years old a virgin. Today, it has been a few years since I ascended and married (although I am now divorced)., but I remain equally blackpilled and sympathetic to incels.

This post is meant both as a reply to Todd Z. after his appearance on episode 46 of the Incel Project podcast, and an indictment of many former incels in general. It’s not meant to be hostile but hopefully can start some conversations.

In his appearance on Naama Kates’ podcast, Todd Z. represents the very typical former incel, or fakecel, life story. He used to put himself down a lot, didn’t believe in himself, even called himself a Grotesque Subhuman, and of course identified as an incel. But then certain events and connections in Todd’s life spurred him to try self-improvement, which led to a positive experience with a woman, which in turn improved his confidence, and now Todd finds himself able to date, flirt with women, have sex, etc. His takeaway from this? “If I can do it, other incels can too”

In his appearance, Todd also condemns incels’ online communities for their negativity. He never quite states it directly, but it seems like he believes they should either be censored, deleted or otherwise have their negativity curtailed. Why? Well, because he believes they are harmful to men for whom it’s not over. And therein lies the betrayal.

Before I move to discuss the betrayal itself, let me devote a few sentences to my own story as a former incel – just to contrast it with that of Todd and other fakecels. Throughout most of my life, I was a hardcore incel – being ugly AND androgynous means women tend to detest me. – the first half of my twenties was spent in feverish attempts to improve myself, which as you can imagine led to nothing. The second half was spent in depression and wallowing. I became a wizard – a 30-year-old virgin. Eventually, though, by pure coincidence, I met my unicorn – a woman with tastes so unique that she genuinely found me physically attractive. We had sex, built a great relationship, and eventually got married. Just like Todd, I ascended. UNLIKE Todd, my life did not take a dramatic turn after that – I still struggle with my physical issues, women still detest and avoid me.

Todd and other fakecels believe there are many men like him in incel communities – men who just need to put in a bit of effort for their interactions with women to dramatically improve. He accuses incel communities of harming such men with negativity – supposedly, they’re less likely to take those necessary steps to improve themselves if they keep reading blackpill content. I’m agnostic as to whether any of it is true or not. Maybe it is – but why do actual incels have a duty to protect fakecels from the blackpill?

When he identified as an incel, someone for whom it’s over, Todd did not have a problem with blackpilled content. He began to have a problem with it only after he suddenly found himself on the other side – the side of normal men, men who just need to put in some effort. Men who ideally shouldn’t be in incel communities at all. Instead of recognizing that he had wrongly assessed his attractiveness and came to the wrong place, Todd instead acts as if it’s the incels that had some sort of duty to inform him of that. That it’s not his own mistake but their deception, their deliberate toxicity. And that’s the betrayal – instead of quietly leaving and enjoying his success, he lashes out at his former comrades and demands that they, in their own communities, prioritize the needs of men like him.

Are there fakecels in incels communities? There are. But there are also actual incels – men who cannot become conventionally attractive and who cannot hope to meet a partner barring a one in a billion miracle of the kind that happened to me. Generally, I believe that incel communities exist for the benefit of the latter. After all, fakecels like Todd are just men who struggle with dating… which is a very normal experience. If he wants communities for such men, plenty are available – redpill, bluepill, no pill, whatever. Someone who wants to discuss the normal struggles of finding a romantic partner has the entire internet at their disposal. A true incel who, unlike Todd, gets absolutely nothing, has only incel spaces to turn to. Why then should he limit himself just to protect more advantaged men from harming themselves? There is no justification for that. The only reason fakecels demand an end to blackpill negativity is that they view their needs as more important than the needs of incels. It’s pure tribalism: “they (the incels) should stop doing what they’re doing because that would be convenient to us (the fakecels)”

I believe that incels have no such duty towards anyone. Todd’s failure to recognize that it’s not over for him is just that – his own set of misaimed views, for which only he is responsible. And true incels deserve to have their own spaces in which they can express the feelings, negative or not, associated with their condition.

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